Transcript

Wednesday 25 February 2009, 1100-1230

IZUMI OKUTANI: So welcome, everyone, to NIR SIG, and I hope you can hear me OK at the back as well? Is that OK?

Um, so, well, as you can tell from the name, NIR SIG is about exchanging information about NIR activities and we have a 90-minute session today and, um, the agenda is we have, um, five presentations from NIRs. The first one is CNNIC update. The second one, TWNIC is going to give us an update of the status for 4-byte ASN in Taiwan. The third is from Korea, KRNIC of NIDA. They're going to give us a national plan for Internet address resources. The fourth will be from Vietnam, VNNIC. They're going to give us an update on VNNIC activities and the last of the agenda is actually not from an NIR but a policy working group from Japan, which is an organisation that makes policy coordination in Japan and they'll be introducing, um, how they have coordinated policy - transfer policy proposals.

So that's the planned agenda for today and is there anything you'd like to add to the topic that's to be discussed here? Apart from the ones listed so far?

OK, if not, then we'll move on to the first presentation, which will be CNNIC by Terence from CNNIC. Terence, would you like to come up and...

TERENCE ZHANG: Hi. Good morning, everyone.

My name is Terence. I'm from CNNIC. Glad to have this opportunity to give you an update on CNNIC activities in the past year. Here is the outline of the update.

First, I will go through some statistics, number of our membership, IP allocation status. And then I will talk about some promotion activity we have done in the past year, such as our seminars and our cooperation with other industry associations. And also I will talk about our system upgrade.

First I will go through those numbers. Till the end of 2008, we have 282 members and CNNIC has allocated 189,306 /24 IPv4 address blocks and 25 /32 IPv6 address blocks.

Below is the distribution in size of our membership. You can see most of them are small and medium ISPs with IPv4 address allocations below /16 and the large portion is the members with less than /19 IPv4 address allocation.

Here is the members' growth of CNNIC since the year of 2000. Start from 56 members in 2000 until the end of 2008 we have 282 members. Um, the member growth is mainly because of the huge growth in Internet users in China and also CNNIC's effort in promotion and our local languages service have significant effect on the member growth.

This is IPv4 allocation growth of CNNIC since the year of '99. Until the end of 2008, we have allocated totally 189,306 /24 IPv4 address. And we allocate 130 /16 IPv4 address in 2008.

Here is the IPv6 allocation growth of CNNIC. CNNIC allocates six /32 IPv6 address in 2008 until the end of 2008 we have allocate totally 25 /32 IPv6 address.

The next thing we talk about is the seminars. We have held one member meeting and two seminars in the past year and the member meetings are already covered in the last CNNIC update so I just talk about two seminars.

We have one in Hangzhou and one in Guangzhou. There were about 120 people attend seminar in Hangzhou and 180 attend the seminar in Guangzhou. Most of them are from the technical of operations department of the ISP or ICP, and the objective of the seminar is to inform the community of the IPv4 consumption status and also we have some discussion about, um, our strategy and solution to the IPv4 exhaustion. We have some ISP experience session.

The topic of the seminar include IP address and ASN application status and policy, IPv4 address exhaustion, IPv6 transition and 4-byte AS number transition.

Here is two pictures we took from the seminar.

Then the next thing is our cooperation activities. Here is the cooperation with Telecommunication Industry Association. The association will put CNNIC Whois database query on their website and also they will, um, publish one news from us about the latest news about the IP resource allocation in the industry, in the industrial section of their website. The website is www.tele21.com.cn. It's a very popular website in China's telecommunication industry.

Here is a snapshot of the homepage of the website. The two circles - one is the CNNIC Whois database query and the other one is news about IP resource allocation. The one on the picture is about IPv4 exhaustion and 4-byte AS number transition.

The purpose of the cooperation is to get more interaction with the industry association and also raise awareness about IPv4 exhaustion.

The next thing is our resource management system upgrade. We continue our effort to upgrade our resource management system. We have done three major updates in the past year.

The first one is the reverse DNS delegation system in our resource management system, so that member can set up and modify their reverse DNS delegation in the system instead of sending us a request form.

And the second thing is we add automatic statistics of IP Whois registration in the system so that the members have a better ideas of their IP, the IPv4 address they own and their registration, their Whois registration status. And in addition to that, we have optimised the user interface so that the members can have a better way to manage their IP resources.

Here is a snapshot of the resource management system.

This page is about setting up a reverse DNS delegation. It's just pretty easy to just click on the menu and they can set up a DNS delegation or they can modify their record.

And this one is about IP Whois registration status. This shows the address block the member owns and also the percentage of the IP Whois registration, so it's more easier and efficient for them to manage their IP resources.

OK, the last thing is, um, our - what we want - what we plan to do in 2009.

First, we want to set up a specific website on IP resource allocation so that we can provide some information about IP resources, IP address, AS numbers, statistics and reports and some industrial views and also we can provide some technical information and training materials. CNNIC's website doesn't have enough space for us to publish those kind of information so we need to set up a separate one.

And also we will continue our effort in IMS upgrade. This year, we'll focus on the Whois - improved Whois query and database in the Whois database. Also we will do some more promotion activity. We plan to do some promotion in some portal websites and also some industry magazine and also we will hold our member meeting and seminar as usual.

Also we want to plan to do some IPv6 training to our members or some ISP technical people.

And the most important thing is we will be host the APNIC 28 meeting in Beijing so welcome to Beijing. That's it, thank you.

APPLAUSE

IZUMI OKUTANI: That's OK. Thank you very much for a very interesting presentation, Terence. And, um, well, any questions or comments from the floor?

TAIJI KIMURA: I'm Taiji from JPNIC. Thank you for a very organised and well understand - easy-to-understand presentations. Thank you.

Do you have any activities on routing security in the Internet? APNIC has the IRR service and we attended tutorial and if you have any IRR service or researching on routing security itself at CNNIC, could you bring us the short briefs?

TERENCE ZHANG: I think most of the things we do in CNNIC is that... Resource allocation and it doesn't relate to any security, routing security. Does that answer your question?

TAIJI KIMURA: Oh, yeah, so, the question itself is different from the routing security in the Internet. So yeah, um, some - like APNIC or JPNIC also, we are considering our net. Is it really separated or maybe related to... but it's not decided yet. So that's my concern.

TERENCE ZHANG: OK.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Taiji, may I clarify the intention of your question?

The reason I assume you're asking this is because we're facing IPv4 exhaustion so rather than just simply for a registry to keep database itself, you know, the security in routing will become more and more important to prevent people from just, you know, using address space without proper permission. That's one of the reasons. And then I think Geoff Huston from APNIC is working on a resource certificate to make sure that, you know, the authentic holder of address space can be certified. So Taiji, probably, are you asking that CNNIC is now focusing attention on that area and is there anything that you're working?

TERENCE ZHANG: I think we are aware of the situation, because we do have some members saying that, um, they - the address they get from us may have problem in routing or maybe - as you said before, something like that. We, we are thinking about - we are also thinking about this kind of problem and is there any policy to put in force so we can avoid this kind of problem. But we have - because we have no research on this very seriously so right now we don't have any method to do that. Mm-hm.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you for the clarification, Terence. So I think that's certainly a topic of interest, that's - you know, to exchange information among NIRs and maybe this NIR SIG is a bit open, you know. Why -

TAIJI KIMURA: Sorry, it's very simple question. So I'm not so deep concern on it. So thank you for your knowledge, but this is not so deep question, just the status at this moment.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Yes. Thank you for asking the question. Maybe it's something to be discussed in the future and NIR and APNIC technical workshop that was held yesterday so maybe it's something that you can exchange information in more detail in the future if it's necessary.

TAIJI KIMURA: Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you for asking the question, Taiji.

TAIJI KIMURA: Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: And thank you, Terence.

APPLAUSE

IZUMI OKUTANI: So the next speaker would be, yes, Sheng-Wei from TWNIC.

SHENG-WEI KUO: Good afternoon. My name is Sheng-Wei Kuo from TWNIC. Today I will report the status of 4-byte AS number in Taiwan.

This is my today's outline. First, I will introduce the surrounding air. Second, I will introduce the preparation of 4-byte AS number in Taiwan, so we will discuss ISP's migration issues. Finally, we will talk about the future work in Taiwan.

As you know, 2-byte AS number exhaustion is indeed and will be exhaustion in 2011. And new APNIC policies for AS number management in Asia Pacific region active in 2009.

The timetable for moving from 2-byte only AS number to 4-byte AS numbers is as follows:

1 January 2007 - APNIC will assign 2-byte AS numbers by default. APNIC assigns 4-byte AS numbers on request.

1 January 2009 - APNIC assigns 4-byte AS numbers by default. APNIC assigns 2-byte AS numbers on request.

1 July 2009 - APNIC assigns 4-byte AS numbers by default. APNIC assigns 2-byte AS numbers if 4-byte AS number is demonstrated to be unsuitable.

1 January 2010 - APNIC ceases to make any distinction between 2-byte and 4-byte AS number, APNIC assigns from an undifferentiated 4-byte AS number pool.

For this reason, we hope to prepare that Taiwan's ISPs can support 4-byte AS numbers. We had requested a block of 4-byte AS numbers in 2008 and our resource manager manages system that can support 4-byte AS numbers in promotion we also announced former letter to ISPs about AS number policy adjustment. Since 2006, ISPs discussed 4-byte AS numbers on 6th, 8th, 11th TWNIC IP Open Policy Meeting and some ISPs begin to test 4-byte AS routing. This slide will demonstrate the TWNIC's resource management system for support 4-byte AS number. You can query Whois database for 4-byte AS numbers whether you use ASDOT or use ASPLAIN.

And new nick hostmaster can use this system to assign and manage 4-byte AS numbers.

In TWNIC's 11th Open Policy Meeting, we invite major ISPs Cisco and Juniper to discuss the migration issue of 4-byte AS number. And TWNOG provided 4-byte AS number migration suggestion report. The detailed information you can see at this URL. But no ISP migrate to 4-byte AS number in Taiwan right now.

Why? We have two migration issues.

The issue one - the timetable of router manufacturers support 4-byte AS number are too late. In Taiwan, 70% ISP use Cisco router and portal, but Cisco will support 4-byte AS number in 2009. This date baa came from Taiwan Cisco.

And the issue two - ISP router operating system upgrade is not always easy work because ISP upgrade and then reboot router may impact the network and service level agreement, so they need a serious and detailed plan to upgrade all router. ROS will spend many months, even more than one year.

What if ISPs don't migrate to 4-byte AS number? They can receive 4-byte - they can see route information for 4-byte AS number, but they have ASPATH issues on border router. As you know, the ASPATH is a very important attribute for BGP policy design. It allows or denies BGP routes and sets local preference and sets BGP community.

If the border router didn't support 4-byte AS number, ISP cannot handle 4-byte AS BGP routes but ASPATH attribute. It cannot permit or deny BGP routes bias path information. And it cannot set BGP local preference and border router by ASPATH information. And it cannot set BGP community on border router by ASPATH information.

So the major ISPs plan to migrate 4-byte AS number project, to reduce the timetable of ISP support 4-byte AS number. We will invite the vendor to provide training course 4-byte AS number for ISP and TWNOG will discuss and share experience of ISP migration 4-byte AS number.

OK. This is...OK.

Do you have any questions?

CHING-HENG KU: Thank you, Sheng-Wei. Are there any questions from the floor?

PAUL WILSON: It's Paul from APNIC. Thanks for the report about the 4-byte ASNs.

Geoff Huston has done the majority of the work on this topic, at APNIC Secretariat of course, and I'm sure he would have been interested to hear that and he may also have had some questions, but he was delayed in coming here and he's just walked in the room, so I apologise that Geoff wasn't able to be here.

But maybe if there are some particular questions and you'd like to ask them, now that he's here, Geoff could help. Thanks.

SHENG-WEI KUO: Thank you.

CHING-HENG KU: So, Geoff, do you have any comments on the progress of 4-byte AS numbers?

IZUMI OKUTANI: There has been some introduction on the issues that people are still facing. I'm sorry that I can't give you all the details right now, but one of the issues was some vendors - like Cisco support is a bit light, 2009 and the upgrade takes a long time and then if it's not supported in border routers, then, um, well, they're going to be facing ASPATH issues -

GEOFF HUSTON: No, they're not.

What actually happens inside this is that the way in which 4-byte AS numbers are supported is that it's pairing on a peer-to-peer basis, yes? So if my AS is 4-byte all my routers have to support it, or none.

In other words, I can only run it when I'm fully capable, so that's the first kind of thing. You're either all or none if it's you. But of your neighbours, it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter because the entire thing is translating. It just tunnels and translates.

What if that doesn't work? And then the real answer is in almost - and I say almost - every case, it doesn't matter. Because what most folk don't understand is that the only reason why BGP carries an ASPATH at all is to prevent loops.

And there's a secondary thing about best path. The best path doesn't matter in this argument. It's about loop detection. And the only AS you are looking for is yourself.

So oddly enough, what actually happens is if the ASPATH is damaged, someone else will detect the loop. Because if the loop swings around 10 ASes, as long as one of the 10 is capable of doing loop detection, the loop will be detected.

So most of the issues with 4-byte AS support are just fine.

There is one issue that we are aware of. If you don't do it right, and you use a 4-byte AS inside a confederation and export it - bad idea. In fact, against the standard. The first party running new BGP to hear it will shut down its BGP session with whoever it heard it from as long as they're running a Juniper because the standard said, "If you see this, you should turn down the session." Cisco go, "Well, I'm just going to drop it."

So inside the IETF, they're now revising the 4-byte standard to say, "When you see this kind of stupidity - and it is stupidity - silently discard the stupid route and press on, do not tear down the session." Right?

The rest of this stuff is really quite innocuous. It just works. There aren't any great issues in terms of the way BGP handles it.

Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you, Geoff, for the clarification. Is there anywhere that we can see the remaining issue up on the website?

GEOFF HUSTON: The issue around confederations and the leaking and so on?

This is all happening in a mailing list for the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF and there are, to my knowledge, around 200 or so e-mail messages identifying the problem and then discussing what the solution might be and then working on - there is a new draft so all of this is actually in the IETF context right now and all the material is there.

Paul Wilson asked if we had updates on ICONS and, not being a person who's doing these updates myself, I do not know. I'm sorry.

IZUMI OKUTANI: So thank you, Sheng-Wei, and I think it's an issue that would be nice to be shared among other NIR operators' communities as well so maybe he with can keep in touch and exchange information.

Thank you.

And the next speaker will be Hyun Joon Kwon from KRNIC of NIDA.

HYUN JOON KWON: Hello. My name is Hyun Joon Kwon. I'm from the KRNIC. OK.

My presentation today is about our national policy, national plan for Internet address resources. We have finalised our 3-year plan for Internet address resources last year on the 30th of December, so this is very new. And then still we are working about the detail - detailed plan for this one. This national plan is very, um, just - they are showing just the directions, not the details. The detailed plan is still developing right now.

OK, this is - I will tell you about why we need this 3-year national plan and then I will explain a little bit about only IPv6 transition plan of the whole national plan.

Here is the legal grounds for the 3-year national plan is we have a law about the act on Internet address resources and then on the grounds of this article, we are entitled to make a 3-year national plan. So this plan is the second one. We had a first one before and then this second one is the plan about - plan for 2009 to 2011.

This plan, you know, includes many issues about Internet addresses, IP and domain names and there are many - some kind - many other different services like OID, object identifier and then there is also another service about WINC - this is wireless Internet access, wireless Internet access for the mobile contents. And also we are dealing with many issues about ICANN and the Internet governance issues and also statistics about Internet address resources.

This is the picture of how we develop our national policy. You see that the ball is NIDA and then bottom of the picture you see the KCC, Korea Communications Commission.

OK, there is - that's our ministry. Formally it was MIC, Ministry of - you know - the Information and Communications.

This one - KCC is born because of - we are IPTV and other services are getting important, getting - so getting important so we - our government today make a new ministry for the IPTV and Internet and many other online issues, so KCC is the main department. So KCC will develop a policy plan and also this is controlling the implementation and it is financing all the government projects.

And then during the developing of policies, KCC will use an advisory group with multi-stakeholders. This advisory group consists of, you know, the professors and NGOs, many other people and also you see there on the pictures, we will consult with many other international organisations and also internal organisations.

And then you see also there is another - the committee is there, the dispute resolution committee. You see there is also another... the committee is there, the dispute resolution committee. That's for the domain name dispute resolutions. So this is the whole picture of Korean Government, how they develop the policies about Internet address resources.

Like I said, this plan is going to deal with domain name, IP, many other resources but today I'm going to give you the presentation only about IP addresses. So I will give you the one, the brief explanation about that part. I just...I - I make up the one title for the whole action plan so just to - this plan is - the object of this plan is to provide, you know, the framework for the how we, you know, the - move from IPv4 to IPv6.

The goal is - because when you make an initial plan, you need a goal, so even though it is possible to accomplish or not and then we need to set up our goals, so these are the - our two goals. The first one is readiness for IPv6 transition or backbone network. So in this case, we need a full support from the private sector's ISPs.

So to implement this goal, we cannot, you know, we cannot, you know, enforce a private sector. We can only recommend. We only can give them the guidelines. So we will persuade ISPs you should change until 2011 and the only backbone should be ready for the IPv6. So the concept of readiness is kind of different. You still have to be fully changed from v4 to v6. The network should be ready when the Internet users want to use IPv6 and then - oh, sorry - and then, you know, the... just ISPs of the private sectors, if they are ready and then, you know, that's our goal.

And the second goal is about the public side, the readiness of the public side, because, in this case, we can control over that part. Because, you know, the government, ministries and many organisations are funded by, you know, the government. So we can control, you know, the progress. So we will, um, implement our e-government network so we will apply the dual-stack to our e-government network.

So our goal is 50% of the network should be ready for IPv6 until 2011 and then we hope until 2013 our government network, 100% our government network will be ready for IPv6. That's our two goals.

And then there were action plans and we will set up the joint committee between private and public sectors and then because we need cooperation to, you know, accomplish those two goals.

And then second one is we will provide a legal framework and maybe a social framework also, the same thing. We will provide legal framework for IPv6 transitions. Maybe setting up many other systems in order to support, you know, support our private sector's ISPs. Maybe they can, you know, change.

And then another third one is IPv6 transition plan for public institutions. Before - as I told you before, this national plan is quite a big one so based on this big plan, we will, um, develop more detailed plan for each part, so this is another - we need another plan for this plan.

So this is IPv6 transition plan. We need an IPv6 transition plan for public institutions. Also, we will develop IPv6 support program for private sectors.

And then, um, the fifth one is quite important one. We need to spread the recognition of IPv4 depletion to our business sectors and even maybe to our multi-stakeholders and then also we will develop and then continuously, you know, carry IPv6 model business for portals, and schools and small business, etc.

OK, this is - as I told you about the action plan and then I'll give you more detailed explanation about our action plan. This - we need people restoring the IPv6 transition, we will make IPv6 transition committee and then we are thinking about this committee consists of, you know, the KCC and the other ISPs.

Also, we will recommend to our ISPs and - that their backbone network should be ready for IPv6 with a dual stack and then also we want to monitor the progress regularly. Maybe we cannot directly tell our ISPs that you should be ready for it, but we will continuously monitor how they progress and then maybe we're hoping this could affect our ISPs get more speed, you know, to change their network from v4 to v6. And also we will - we're going to provide a legal framework for IPv6 transition.

So, um, you know, for example, right now we are thinking about, you know, the - maybe there will be encouraging method. Also there will be another - opposite method so we are thinking many ways but for example, ISPs, we will give them the obligation - the ISPs should submit a status quo report to IPv6 transition regularly and then maybe it will be - we hope this will affect and then I think - I don't know. We expect that this make our ISP move.

And then the third one is we want to, um - EP proceed is kind of IPv6 transition. We need to cooperate many other ministries. So when you sit up - set up the IPv6 transition plan for public institutions, we need more cooperation. So we will negotiate through many ministries.

MOPAS is the Ministry of Public Administration and Security and MOSF is the Ministry for Strategy and Finance. The MOSF is very important. This one gives all the money to the ministries so if we can cooperate with the MOSF, then we will, you know, make the IPv6 transition very easily and then we can negotiate other ministries.

So after negotiation with the ministries, IPv6 will be applied one after the other in the e-government network we expect. And also we will develop an IPv6 support program for private sector.

And we will proceed regular research on the IPv6 status of private sectors and then also we will - we are thinking about developing support program for small-scale content providers. In the business field, there are many different sizes of CPs, but we are only - right now we are thinking about how we, you know, the - support a small-scale CPs and then maybe, um, this is also another way of, you know, supporting private sector we are thinking. And also, we will provide IPv6 guideline or technical support to private sectors for the IPv6 transitions.

And then, um, this fifth one I told you is very important and then we need to let the private sectors know the IPv4 is going to be deployed so we will increase the published activities on IPv4 depletions. So we will through the IPv6 summit in Korea, many other educational activities and conferences and then we will use multimedia tool that the public know the IPv4 is depleting right now.

And also we will provide education for minimisation of trial and error for business part. We will provide a guideline and upline education program for IPv6 implementation and also we need more IPv6 lecturers so we will provide training program for IPv6 lecturers.

And then we will develop - we had many model business for IPv6 but we should continue to perform IPv6 model business for portals and schools and small business for the small businesses. And then through doing this model business, we hope we can accumulate IPv6 implementation know how and then we can transfer this knowledge to private sectors.

And also the last one is quite - in proceeding the whole plan we need someone who is in charge of that whole national, you know, process. IPv6 transition process, so we will set up the IPv6 transition support centre and it will be set up in NIDA soon and then this centre will control and manage all the detailed plans over this national plan. So this is kind of - within NIDA, we will have a centre to control IPv6 transition activities.

So this is the - just a brief outline about our national plans. I was working on this national plan for a year but there are so many difficulties to develop thing. Some of our officials, they understand, and some of them, they don't know. We need to, you know, consult with many specialists. Right now we only have a big picture and then from this year I need to draw small, many small pictures. There are still many jobs we need to go.

So thank you for your attention.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you, Hyun-joon.

I think this is an issue that each NIRs or what - it's not actually an NIR. The Internet community as a whole is facing and do you have any comments or questions about NIDA's plans or activities on transition to IPv6?

TAIJI KIMURA: Taiji from JPNIC. Short comment.

JPNIC - in Japan we also have the, um, IPv6 transition plan but there's not moving forward by JPNIC itself but other organisations and cooperate with JPNIC. And JPNIC has issue how to cooperate with the activities, not by JPNIC itself. So your presentation is very, very on good direction to moving forward with the relationship between the organisations, private sectors or maybe commerce sections maybe or the government activities. So thank you for your presentation.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Hi, it's Kirk from Singtel. I was wondering will you be looking at providing incentives or financial aids to ISPs to adopt v6?

HYUN JOON KWON: Yeah, actually we have thought about that way but if we give them directly, you know, if we gave direct help to our ISPs, I think it is against, you know, the - some kind of international world rules or anything. So we will help them indirectly. So maybe we will - some part, we will provide, you know, the dual stack appliances, the network equipment, and then we will develop, you know, the - we call it kind of meta-funding.

So, you know, if they, maybe, if you need to - if we proceed the model business, maybe we can give them like 10% or 20% some help. It's not money; just mainly other technical support and that kind of things and maybe a discounted price for the network. And then they will also invest some money and then we can proceed and then we can develop, but the detailed plan is still working on it but we do not think giving them direct help is - we're thinking about indirect ways, yeah.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Thank you.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: For the information also, actually Taiwan is - the government charged us to set up a task force for this issue too and the first meeting for the task force actually started last Friday and we are happy that Maemura-san joined us for the discussions. Hopefully in the future, Korea, Japan, Taiwan and China they also have a similar discussion. Maybe we can, you know, have a platform to work together in this, you know, critical issue. Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you. I think that's a very good suggestion that, you know, the issues we're facing in each country. There must be something common about it so I don't know what would be, like, you know, a good way to have a formal exchange of information but maybe start with informally, being aware of issues in each economies and then if there's something we need to set up jointly, it's something to be considered in the future maybe.

HYUN JOON KWON: For your information, we are working on the English version of the national plan but still they're checking so maybe - I hope maybe until this April, maybe, I hope we can publish the English version of our national plan and then you can maybe see that.

Alright. Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: So thank you, Hyun-joon for a very interesting presentation.

APPLAUSE

THU THUY NGUYEN: Hello? Is that OK? Is nice to be here to give some informations about VNNIC's update.

And VNNIC was NIR since 2003 and here is some information about our present status. At the moment, we have 45 members, of which 25 are Vietnamese ISPs and we have 20 member is multihoming organisations.

About IPv4 addresses - we have the 6.63 millions. That is equivalent to over 25,000 /24s.

We delegated 24 IPv6 - we delegated 27 prefixes to our members up to now.

And we have three IP host masters in our hostmaster team.

Now here is some of activities in 2008 and early of 2009.

We held - in 2008, we held two member meetings. In May, we have member meeting with more than 50 participants from our members. And we are very pleased to welcome Mr Sunny from APNIC also come to attend our member meeting in May. And we also, in 2008, we also held remote participations for APNIC 26 with 30 participants from our members.

In 2008, we launch web portal for our members to manage their v4 and v6 allocations and assignments. Here is the interface for our members.

Using these tools, our members can report their IP - they're reusing IP addresses that was previously allocated for them. They use this for request to delegate reverse DNS and they can manage informations on utilise status of their IP block.

And here is a tool for ourselves to manage IP address and our members. The interface is the tool for our members is the same with the tool for ourselves.

In 2008, we launch v4 support for .VN. We held, we organised four IPv6 training courses for our members, two for Vietnamese ISPs - that is Viettel and SPT - and we also launch, host two free training courses for all of our members, one in Hanoi and one in Ho Chi Minh City.

We launched Vietnam IPv6 portal at the address you can see here and now it is just in Vietnamese language.

For the IPv6 promotion, I would like to say something about the IPv6 promotion in Vietnam because in recent years VNNIC tries our best to promotion to IPv6 deployments in Vietnam.

Since 2004, we continuously report our information and communications about the importance, the status of v4 and the reasons and the importance of deployment, v6 deployment in Vietnam. We organised IPv6 training courses for members and communities and we, um, published a book on IPv6 deployments.

We also, we also make some projects to set up IPv6 and VNIX as you can see here. VNIX is Vietnam National Internet Exchange.

So some results we get at the moment.

I think the big one is we draw the attention of our government on IPv6. In May 2008, the Minister of Information and Telecommunications promulgated the directions on IPv6 deployment and promotions in Vietnam. In May, they request ISP and other organisations to quickly deploy IPv6 and vees please ISP are requested to connect to VNIX v6 to form national IPv6 network. At the moment, we already have three ISPs to connect to VNIX version six.

And in January 2009, the Vietnamese IPv6 task force was formed and it is headed by deputy minister and our director of VNNIC is vice chairman. And at the moment in Vietnam, IPv6 deployment is still at a very early stage but the Vietnamese ISP start to be aware of the importance of IPv6 deployment in their network.

So this is our plan in 2009. In 2009, we intend to hold a member meeting event in June or July and we will conduct a survey for our members. The topic will focus on two main topics - that is their readiness on IPv6 and on ASN 4-byte.

So we also intend to host an APNIC training course and IPv6 is still our main activities. We will promote IPv6 deployments in Vietnam through IPv6 task force's activities.

So here's some information I would like to bring here to share with all of you and for further information you can contact me. There is my informations.

Any comments? Do you have questions or any comments?

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you, Thu Thuy.

So any comments or any questions about VNNIC's activity on IPv6 promotion? I've noticed that you've been very, very active in promoting IPv6 and started providing training courses and things like that.

I think TWNIC and KRNIC have briefly shared what they're up to. Is there anything that perhaps CNNIC would like to share with the others on what you're doing in terms of IPv6 promotion? Or nothing in particular at the moment?

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Hi. Wendy from CNNIC.

As Izumi has brought it up, I think I will give a rough description of what CNNIC has done for the IPv6 promotion.

Actually, most of you have heard of the CNGI project. This work we have done for the past two years to carry on some IPv6 OSA infrastructure on the DNS event, which is DNS area, that area I'm not very familiar with. Sorry I cannot give you any more detail about that. But if anyone has more interest about that, I will - I am willing to contact the right person to deploy information.

About IPv6 in the address aspect, actually, um, our engineer has mentioned in the - in his slides that we have him do a promotion in cooperation with other associations which we put our - sorry, Whois survey windows on their website. Actually, the main action - main action we want to take is actually having the broad media broadcasting that to show what's going to happen in a few years to draw a person - sorry, to draw a picture to say what is going to happen in the future few years.

Apparently we, um, we have aware people saying that - I hate to say that we are having the IPv6 in 3D in the morning - sorry in the mail room, someone had brought it up saying, "People will not take serious action until they will find out no other options go on," but we don't want to see people go in that track, so we're going to set up the trial and training for people to help them reduce the cost.

Hopefully we can do that to help them find out the right trail to deploy the IPv6. Actually, mainly for this year, we'll be focused on the training for the IPv6. I think that will be helpful for the techno side to say, "Hey, it's not costing as much as you think it's going to cost. If we don't do it right now, it's going to cost more later on." So that's a little update for the v6 work right now. Hopefully we can get more involved with other associations with CERNET and China Telecom, Telemobile in the future, short future.

OK. Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you very much for sharing CNNIC's situation.

And thank you, Thu Thuy, for the presentation.

APPLAUSE

IZUMI OKUTANI: So the last speaker would be Toshio Tachibana from Policy Working Group in Japan.

And what Policy Working Group does is it's a little bit like, um, Address Council in ARIN. It's independent entity from JPNIC and facilitates and coordinates policy discussions in Japan, so they're the ones who organise Open Policy Meetings and facilitate the mailing list and then coordinate policy discussions in Japan.

TOSHIO TACHABANA: Hi. I am Toshio Tachibana. I have second opportunity for presentation to the NIR SIG.

Today, I introduce all the activities since last APNIC meeting about forecasting transfer proposal.

I reintroduced policy development process in Japan. This picture is the stakeholders in Japan. On the left side is the Internet resource user. Up side - right side is JPNIC, the NIR. Centre is our organisation. We provide online and offline forum.

We called offline and online forum JPOPM and JPOPM is outside meeting and a meeting with the online forum.

Policy-WG is an independent group from JPNIC who work for Policy-WG fully volunteered. Members are up there. Chair is Fujisaki-san, who is over there.

This is a report - do you remember a lot of comment posted to SIG-policy ML from Izumi-san. Do you remember? Yeah?

Also this subject brought a lot of comment and a lot of feedback already and already you know that there are opinion, concerns and comments from the Japanese community. How can we post a lot of opinions - I can introduce from now.

That is the motivation. We can see the proposal - transfer proposal. When the transfer proposal was posted, we think about the proposal provides very important changes to history of IP management. We think this proposal has a serious effect on Japanese community. So we must post opinion and comments. We propose other perspective if necessary.

So our challenges. We - that means JPNIC and Policy-WG guys - want comment and opinion from JP community for transfer proposal more and more.

That's what we discussed about solving these issues. How can we provide information for transfer proposal to community? What kind of method for to get comment from the community we have?

Result - we want to have two events done before next APOPM. This discussion last November or December. Number one - JPOPM show case held on 21st January. This is - the day before JANOG 23 meeting in Kochi. Attend about 50 people.

You can see the left-side picture almost small peoples. However, the place is so big and we can see it's just small people you're looking. And right side is our Policy-WG member present about the focus from the operational perspective for transfer issues.

So this is JPOPM show case for activity for outreach to stakeholders and some operators and vendors, to introduce policy development process for this presentation and discussion for specific topic.

This meeting forecasts for transfer proposal discussion from the operator perspective. It's important.

Second - special JPOPM. That was held on 10th February, about two weeks ago, place in Tokyo. And this - you will already see on picture a lot of peoples attend, about 60 people, and they're onsite and 20 people remotely using the video streaming and chat. And someone comment from the chat about the joint to the discussion.

Special JPOPM is - has - their content is we are provide about proposal document, what proposal to next APOPM, tomorrow's Policy SIG, and get comment and concern for 30 minutes. And collect - this is important - collect opinion for transfer proposal and introduce about the three proposals and collect all concerns and all opinions in that time we want for - this is for three hours. A long, long session. We take two breaks. I am chairing for this session - so tough! And a lot of peoples comment to me about how horrible that I can't shorten the session.

However, we were very happy for a lot of comments we can get.

So, result - we can get a lot of opinions and comments from JP community. Izumi-san can translate it and post to sig-policy ML. You already know.

Then a lot of peoples, many people feed back about the feed back to their comments. Then Izumi-san feed back to the Japanese community, then collect again some comment and feed back again.

A very, very special job by her and then - result, we can bring comment to the meeting Policy SIG from the JP community. Their comments will go to the Policy SIG tomorrow.

Thank you.

That's it.

So comments and questions. Please comment slowly.

Thank you.

AKINORI MAEMURA: Akinori Maemura from JPNIC and I just comment on the appreciation on the effort from the Policy-WG in policy coordination in JP Open Policy Forum.

Thank you very much.

IZUMI OKUTANI: So thank you Tachibana-san for the presentation. And we still have, um, something like 10 minutes, um, so we can have an open mic session if there's anything that you want to, you know, discuss about here.

This is the time.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: I have one minor thing to remind all the NIR people here. As you maybe know, the APNIC EC staff on 2008, we are doing the restructure study, you know, and actually the summary already put into a website and you're welcome to download and take a look on www.apnic.net/ec and you can take a look about the restructure study and for the presentation we're making on Friday. So this is information for all NIR people, you know, I think maybe some of you already know that we are in the study.

Thank you very much.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you for sharing that information. Um, maybe I'll confirm the URL with you once again and then I'll post that on the NIR's mailing list so that everyone can, you know, see if they want to confirm it, yeah? Thank you.

It seems - I got an impression that, you know, preparation tools -

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Just, this is additional information about - because many people in APNIC and in AP community - people ask me about Billy and then just come and say some news about him. He actually transferred from the IP department to another department, so right now he will work ICANN issues, so maybe you can meet him if you go to ICANN and then he'll be happy.

IZUMI OKUTANI: So if we want to see Billy, we can attend ICANN meeting. He's still in KRNIC so if we visit KRNIC then we can see him. Well, thank you for sharing that information. I think it's good that we keep in touch about staff and joining new staff, you know, having new staff joining as well as staff leaving.

Um, well, you know, I think, as with the rest of the industry, the common themes seem to be IPv4 address exhaustion and how we get ourselves prepared for IPv6 deployment and then it was interesting to have, you know, all these projects going on in each NIRs. Is there anything that you think is, like, you find it very difficult or as an issue and you'd like to share with others, um, on the floor here? Either in, um, promoting IPv6 deployment or to prepare for IPv4 exhaustion. Anything?

OK, so if there's nothing in particular, it's a little bit early, but then we'll close for lunch. So let's just thank all the speakers once again and give them applause.

APPLAUSE

And thank you also for, you know, everyone who's actually been here, you know, physically, as well as the participants whose, you know, participated remotely. Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE