APNIC 29 APRICOT 2010 Banner



Due to the difficulties capturing a live speaker's words, it is possible this transcript may contain errors and mistranslations. APNIC accepts no liability for any event or action resulting from the transcripts.

11:00 - 12:30 (UTC+8) Wednesday, 3 March 2010

WENDY ZHAO: Hi, I'm Wendy from CNNIC.

IZUMI OKUTANI: NIR SIG is basically a SIG that introduces activities of what NIRs are up to and share any common issues that we can discuss as NIRs, and this time, we have five presentations on the agenda. And we don't have any proposals. It's basically an update, and this time, the theme seems to be, the general theme seems to be how we can address promoting IPv6 deployment, or addressing issues towards exhaustion, which is pretty much common with what we are facing with the industry as a whole. So the first speaker will be Billy Cheon from KISA.

BILLY CHEON: Hi, nice to meet you everyone. My name is Billy Cheon. I'm with KISA. Actually, I've been with this member community for many years, but I explored different fields for a year and I came back. It's good to be back and to see you. I'm very happy to see you guys again.

NEW SPEAKER: Welcome back.

BILLY CHEON: Thank you. People, I will start my presentation. I would like to clarify my situation of my company. People keep asking me which organization are you with? Because we change it often, relatively. I'm with KISA, it stands for Korea Internet and Security Agency. Under the Government plan to advance Governmental organization, three existing organizations, KISA and NIDA - National Internet Development Agency, which was my previous company, and also dedicated to manage IP address and domain names. And KICA. That's for Korea International Cooperation Agency. And lastly, KISA. It's an acronym. I mean, the initials are the same, but it stands for Korea Information Security Agency. We deal with security issues for Korea and those are three organisations which have come together under one name, KISA. It stands for Korea Internet and Security Agency as of July 23rd.

I think from now on, we are going to deal with the more comprehensive issues. And I'm sure IP issues are still one of them.

OK, what you're seeing is the structure of my team. Previously, the IP team was filled with only IP management issues. Like two persons assigned for member services making assignments and allocation for our members, and then one person for system and one person for policy development. That's me. And two guys from standardization joined our team. We have a local process to standard Internet resources and also have forums for that like IP address and domain names, but also RFID, ROID and those kinds of things. But relatively, that's not important, I guess. But this year, we set the goal, our team goal to promote IPv6. And before that, before we merged as one organization, those two teams, the IP management team and the promotion team separate, but we merged for having some synergy effect.

What they have done is mostly proceed with the IPv6 promotional project and making the v6 network. And also awareness for v6. It's a publicity side. So those three things they have done, major business for the promotions. But these areas will be covered under one team, and those, let me introduce my director, Kim Yun Jun over there in the blue suit. So if you have any, for if you want to cooperate with us, please contact her.

OK, today, actually, I want to tell you the direction of our business, the IP team's business. But before that, I borrowed this picture of the emotional stages when people are faced with a crisis so you can change the crisis to work crisis with IPv4 exhaustion for us. At the same time, I see opportunity. Anyway, I think since each country is in a different situation, but with KISA, there's a very strong relationship with our Government. So you would know that we are the only country which has a law about Internet resources, allied the Act on Internet Address Resources. So according to the law, we manage IP addresses. All of the members in Korea, our members, not APNIC. So we're supposed to look after our members. Then, our main service is to give out new IPv4 addresses to our members. But in the situation, like, there's no more IP address to give out, then people, our members are based on... most of our members are providing services based on IPv4 addresses and they get panicked, right. And anger. And they are trying to find someone to blame, and that's us. Because we have managed the IP address within Korea and that's why we get paid as well. I think we needed to prepare for that. Speed up, OK.

So that's why we set up the goal to the IPv6 Soft Landing to reach the final destination. I mean, we wanted to lead our members to IPv6 Soft Landing and minimizing this process of panic and anger for all of the stages. We wanted to mitigate the aftermath from IPv4 exhaustion. I think it's a duty that we need to fulfil for our members. So, we consider that these factors, political, economic are implemented with the last /8 policies. Also, the new fee schedule, and socially, I think that it is meaningful to prepare for and to promote IPv6 in Korea as well. If you take a look at the United Nations Millennium Development Goal, billions of people are waiting to be connected, especially in the least developed countries. And technologically. Our new services with smart phones and a huge amount of IP addresses and also require end-to-end connections.

So, we don't want to get too deeply involved with the private sector. Because we believe we're the so-called invisible hand. Yes, we want to lead the general v6 transition to the private hand. But initially, there's something, like I said, that has to be done by national, by the Government. And so we think that that is publicity and to let them know what you have done to prepare at these stages.

So from the policy side, I think we need, just like APNIC did, or maybe other countries will do, we need to develop or provide and develop new IP management policy for the post-v4 exhaustion and also the fee schedule. That's what we're going to do for this year, 2011. And also, we're going to place a priority to raise awareness for IPv4 exhaustion and v6 deployment. That's a back-to-back issue. At the same time, that's important.

Here, I would like to give some details. Like I said, raising awareness is a priority issue for my team, and before that, actually, we have another but it's only focused on ISPs and we wanted to expand the target, expand the target to the more multi-stakeholders, ventdors and CPs. And it was really inspiring for myself to hear the presentation by Google the other day. Google is a CP. We have some big CPs and we want to ask them to post v4 and some data for v4 exhaustion. Yeah, that's our basic idea. And also let the end-users, in this case the companies, we wanted to also raise awareness for the end-users as well. And also at the same time, it's important to collaborate with global IP management for this like APNIC and other NIRs.

And in the IP policy, we're going to revise and develop the current local IP policy. The paradigm is changing once the IP address has run out, then maybe we need to think about other business mechanisms or policies or whatever. I was told that APNIC and JPNIC were very active to come up with the idea. Like, maybe RPKI and IRR are a good candidate, but I think it depends on how much our members want, I think. So I don't have any... I don't have a solid idea for this. Maybe this is an area that we needed to work together, I guess. And we need to devise the fee schedule is there to keep the fee allocation to our members. But then, paradigm changes and we are going to evaluate and change it to a fee-base. And in the long-term, maybe we'll think about the fee schedule based on the v6 address under the one condition once it is fully deployed.

And the three circles. We are going to have or we're going to hold a G20 important meeting with many governments and we're thinking of having some IPv6 activity with this meeting, just like TWNIC does for APEC Tel. OK, the last one for this promotion pattern, I just wanted to give up an update of what we've done. This picture was the status when we started the promotional project, the v6 project. It was a vicious circle. There's no need for the IPv6 service two years ago because everything was working well based on IPv4. So ISPs, they don't need to provide IPv6- enabled environments. And the users are not able to use IPv6, and consequently, there's no investment were the ISPs and public and private companies. That's the picture from like two years ago. And to change from the vicious circle to the virtuous circle, the Government tried to give some momentum to try to change the situation. You know, first we recommended the public agencies to change the IPv6-ready and enabled and to recommend the ISPs to set a plan for IPv6 deployment and promotion project with portal and news sites. But awareness was a little bit... We should put more effort in awareness now, think. But the virtuous circle, this picture, we are not there yet, but we're going to be.

Maybe it is a little bit different. It's a local issue, but electricity. Many years ago, we, Korea, used 110 volts and changed it to 220 volts. Just like the transition process is very similar with the transition from v4 to v6. So it's just like this. And for me, there's some time for the dual working with v6, and finally, v6 only. And just like that, the key promotional project was to construct v6 base network and then expand one-by-one like this. And hopefully, this project started last year, in 2008. We were going to, we keep continuing to ask our members, the ISPs to have a v6 network and to expand to go with the network on this planet until it is replenished with the IPv6 vegetable, which is healthy to the network! OK, thank you, thank you for my presentation.


IZUMI OKUTANI: Would you go to the microphone for the remote participants.

NEW SPEAKER: I'm from new Delhi in India. What is the 10% that you mentioned?

BILLY CHEON: Oh, that's the campaign to raise awareness. A campaign. Maybe, I think you can take the answer there?

IZUMI OKUTANI: I think Miwa can answer this?

NEW SPEAKER: Does this mean the same number of IPs that we will pay more? What do you mean about the tier based?

BILLY CHEON: Tier based?

NEW SPEAKER: What is your intention?

BILLY CHEON: Accordingly, our fee system, our fee schedule is consistent with two things. One is the progress fee and the tier base. And then if there's no more addresses to give out, then the per-address fee is not meaning. It's no use so we're just going to abolish. And then we're going to change to tier-based system.

MIWA FUJII: Miwa from APNIC. Just to answer your question about IANA 10% message. When APNIC received two /8 it's this January, that pushed down IANA's remaining free IPv4 address pool to slightly below 10%. And all Regional Internet Registries including APNIC, for the NRO, the Number Research Organization, thought that this was a great opportunity to launch a major media campaign to outreach for the much larger scope of Internet users, not only network engineers or ISP and Telcos. So we launched a major media campaign with a document and press release and we asked the entire APNIC community to help us disseminate the information. India is also conducting it with SANOG and the organizations were asked to look at this information. And I'm going to talk further more about this in my presentation. Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Any other questions from the floor?

NEW SPEAKER: This is a query to all of you. If any country out there has worked over IPv6 deployment for forest in case of some kind of protection to the forest is to be done and there has been a deployment of a device with IPv6 on trees so that trees can be protected? A project like this has been talked about in India. I just want to understand if any other country has really gone in that direction? With the IPv6, small be to be deployed on every tree so that tomorrow there is a challenge, there is a connectivity to a central system. Izumi, am I communicating?

IZUMI OKUTANI: Yes, so instead of... we think of IP address as something that you connect to the network, but in the case of India, they're actually assigned, but probably attaching the device to a tree and then you use it to, I don't know, for example, measure how much trees are maintained or things like that, and you're interested to know whether there's a similar deployment in other countries?

NEW SPEAKER:Right, the smugglings and all that are even there in a forest situation. The trees are taken away and it happens at a time when the guards are really not there. So this is what actually if you want me to elaborate, I can do that.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Interesting, so this is actually in real deployment, or is it a plan to be deployed?

NEW SPEAKER: Currently, there's a small project by a private entrepreneur who has approached the Department of Information Technology for mobile IPv6. He has asked us to come and see that he has done it in a small area where any tree is touched by an unwanted way, there is an immediate connectivity to the central system.

IZUMI OKUTANI: OK, so like monitoring the tree?

NEW SPEAKER: That's right. The only thing is as it is not a volume, so the cost has to be brought to a situation where it becomes more cost effective and competitively too, what government or anybody spends in terms of protection for the trees or the forest is also taken care of. So if the volume comes, then it will become very effective. So if all the countries can join together, and actually there's a real use of IPv6.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Yes, I think that is very much an innovative way of using IPv6 compared to what we think of IP addresses. So thank you for sharing that piece of information. Are there any other NIRs who are interested in this project in India, or anything that's been deployed outside the conventional use of IP addresses within other economies? What's the situation like in Korea, for example? Is there anything of similar use? Doesn't necessarily have to be like a forest, but then outside of computers that IP address is assigned?

BILLY CHEON: Not the same as India, but I think many years ago, I think we sort of upset the concept over using IP addresses in ecosystem like putting an IP address in surveillance terminal 2. How the equal system is working, and I think we did it. But that's just temporary. We are not doing it any more, I think.

NEW SPEAKER: Hello, Sean from CNNIC. I was just about to say something following that gentleman's ideas. And I don't know whether this is the appropriate time to say this. And I think you were talking about the Internet thing. So we are also applying some funding for doing that, some research works. For example, some scenarios like some dangerous equipment in the city, like fireworks or things like that or the power network, they have an IP address on each metre of the power network. So that they definitely need the IP address, and IPv6 will be the best choice, because there is still such a huge space of addresses. So if you're interested, we can definitely share some ideas. That would be nice.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you. And we actually have a case in Japan that we recently received quite a large allocation for a mobile phone company that uses IP addresses outside of, not just for mobile phones, but for banding machines or for monitoring like medical use and things like that. And I guess the session time is quite limited, so maybe after this session is over, we can sit together and exchange more information in detail. So thank you for bringing that topic and I think that it is very interesting. Thank you very much for your presentation.

So the next speaker will be Miwa from APNIC and she'll be talking about APNIC's IPv6 program, which is related to the earlier topic that we discussed with Billy's presentation.

MIWA FUJII: Thank you, Izumi-San. Good morning everyone, I'm Miwa from APNIC.

This morning I want to talk about collaboration among the NIRs and APNIC IPv6 program volume 2. You may recall, I did the same title presentation at APNIC 28 in Beijing. And this is the basically update report and volume 2, and I would like to keep doing this presentation, volume 3 and volume 4 and volume 5, probably until the IPv4 is completely exhausted.

Right, this is the overview of my presentation. I would like to briefly talk about what APNIC IPv6 program achieved and what sort of activities we were involved in 2009. That included the IANA final 10% project, which was part of the question that was asked by that gentleman over there, and I will talk further more about this 10% project. And I would like to talk about the report of the outcome of this project at the outreach activity. And also, I'd like to talk about working together with the NIRs. This is the same topic I covered in Beijing as well.

So, activities in 2009 of APNIC IPv6 program. When we started this program in 2008, we focused on the multi-stakeholder approach. Our usual audience, constitute of network engineers and ISPs and Telcos who are APNIC's Members, and we realized to document this important information of the IPv4 exhaustion and importance of adoption of IPv6, we really needed to step out from our comfort zone and approach the different stakeholders like application developers, content providers, including various enterprises and vendors and so on. So we went to all sorts of different types of conferences, which were very different from the usual conference that is we would go and we would collect a business card and create the new networks with people. So the new collaborative relationships has grown into about 60 plus organizations and individuals. Some of the examples of the new relationship we've sounded is ISOC-AU, ISOC-TW, ICANN at large, IP Mirror, and .auDA. This is only a small sample. There is a more extensive list of the 60 plus organizations and individuals.

As you can see, IP Mirror and .auDA. They're a different group from IP field, they're domain registry people. But we never approached domain registry people with this information in a systematic way. So it was very important to create the collaborative relationship. These organizations helped us to disseminate the information of the NRO 10% and APNIC 10% messages widely to their community, and I would like to build on this new collaborative relationship in the future further more.

And by the way, one more important groups we approached was Government. Policy makers and regulators. We approached the OECD, APEC-TEL. We conducted the one-day IPv6 workshop for the APEC-TEL group and we will continue further more collaborative relationship with those groups too. And also, we went to India many times too to attend the technical conference for the Government policy makers and regulators. We want to continue this effort.

This chart, you must be familiar. I just want to go through it quickly. The current remaining IPv4 address at IANA is 22 blocks of /8. APNIC was allocated two /8s on January 19th this year. Right the next day, January 20th, we launched NRO APNIC 10% message media campaign. Followed by APNIC's two /8 allocations, ARIN received two /8s on February 11th. That allocation pushed down the remaining IANA free pool to 8.6%. So this is the current situation. So this is the screen capture of the NRO/IANA 10% media campaign. NRO, the consolidated group of the five RIRs, launched this media campaign press release on January 20th, and the message was circulated to various organizations in APNIC's region, including those 60 newly-built new networks and new organizations and individuals, and they helped us to disseminate this information further more to their community. And within seven days, within a week, APNIC launched a similar media campaign, IPv6 indicator to business leaders. And again, this was circulated amongst the others and the community organizations.

So, I would like to thank you for your support. It was a great cooperation from the NIRs. They were very helpful. For example, I just couldn't list everything, but KRNIC, Korea, I could see the newswire in Korea covering the press release about this NRO APNIC 10% campaign. China also. I could see the online news talking about that v4 exhaustion 10% message. And Japan, Japan's audience is probably slightly different from other parts of the AP region, because they've been working with IPv6 for many, many, many years. So they needed to customize the NRO/APNIC message to cater such a community. So they created their own press release and they released it. And one other thing is that one of the... Japan's TV network. It's a semi-national TV network. Actually, the news media covered the v4 exhaustion task force active member. They interviewed Arano-san on TV. And during the ordinary news program hour, his comment was broadcasted. So that was a very good outreach activity that JPNIC conducted. And Taiwan, I can see the Taiwan translated, TWNIC basically translated all of the media campaign for online news. As such, I very much appreciate the NIRs' effort to support the coordinated NRO/APNIC message saturation.

So this is an example of the global media coverage. The NRO launched their news through their PR agency. And that news was picked up with ZD Net, CNET, NetworkWorld, all of the famous news media. So we will learn from this experience and improve further more for the future PR activities.

So what we are doing in the future is probably when 5% of IANA's IPv4 pool remains unallocated and is reached, and I assume that it is about 13 /8 of IANA, when we reach this point, probably we will launch another media campaign and we would seek your collaboration and help. Then, when five /8s of IPv4 are left and unallocated, which again, that will probably make up a major media campaign. This five /8s are kind of a magic mark. When IANA reaches this point, all five would be kept for each RIRs. So basically, there is no more free pool when it hits five /8s. So this is an important landmark. So between now and then, probably we have about one year to reach the 13 /8 point. Between now and then, if you can further explore what sort of media is available in your region and what would be the most effective and efficient way to reach your community. If you explore that information and share that with us in this community, probably next NIR SIG meeting, that would be very helpful.

So, looking forward to the future, working together with the NIRs. I talked about this last meeting in Beijing, so I won't go into too much detail. But we have limited resources. We don't have vast resources available. We need to identify systematic methods to reach out the enterprises and content providers. We realize the traffics will come from the edges. We need to bring IPv6 to where the traffic comes from there. For example, Google enabled YouTube on IPv6 towards the end of January this year.

And we monitored, we learned from monitoring it with one of the Australian universities, they showed us their traffic data. Suddenly, the traffic on IPv6 increased from almost 0 to 10 gig on the day of Google making YouTube available on IPv6. So this is very encouraging news. If content is available on IPv6, some part of the global network is ready to traffic IPv6 packets. So let's increase the traffic all together by approaching the enterprises and content providers in a systematic way. And I would like to maintain the close communication with the NIRs, especially prior to the major campaigns I mentioned. And the future round table meetings, possibly when APNIC staff goes to your open policy meetings, or maybe some IPv6 conferences, maybe that would be a good chance for us to meet with your staff and probably your board members or higher level decision makers so that we can exchange our information and increase the mutual understanding and support.

The one example which we conduct is this January, when Paul went to Japan to conduct some presentation at NOG, Network Operator's Group, we extended that meeting to meet with JPNIC's board members too, and that was a very fruitful meeting. We increased the mutual understanding and looking forward to the future collaboration as well. So we would like to continue this kind of effort with all NIRs too. So please help us to outreach to your communities through this kind of effort.

I talked about this in the last meeting as well. APNIC does not make operational decisions, although we are proactively talking about IPv6 towards the community. We want to support the community's decision to transit to IPv6, but we would like to tread carefully as well. So that is our stance, and we would hope that you would understand why we are choosing that action as well.

We would like to support the view of the technical community on IPv6 address management. And let's let the community views to key stakeholders. This afternoon at 2:00, we're having the special session - Community Consultation: Do we need to have an additional parallel structure run by the ITU to manage space? That is the open and bottom-up transparent process as usual? Please, I would like to encourage you to join that conference and session and raise your voice if you want to do so.

And this is last but not least, let's get ready for IPv6. This is the publicly available website. Mark Pryor, one of the network engineers working at Juniper, he lives in Melbourne, he created this very simple script to check the IPv6 availability on these domains and web mail DNS NTP and XMTP. And this is publicly available information. The fail is a bit of a strong word, but basically, fail means that it is under construction. You are working on it to make these services available on IPv6 in the future. So let's work together. Let's present a good example to the community, and if you have any technical issues or problems, let's share the solution here in this SIG. APNIC went through a lot of challenges as well. We thought that we enabled NTP on IPv6. But we have met with a fail constantly. But that was a good indication. It motivated us to go back and check what was wrong and test again and come back again and check it again. And that process helped us a lot. And I think the same thing would happen to you too. So if you try to enable your web server mail DNS, it's probably up to them, and if you experience any technical difficulties, let's share it at this forum so that we can share the know-how and we can help each other. Because we are one team. So that's my message. Thank you.


IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you very much, Miwa. Are there any comments or questions on the floor about what Miwa has presented?

PAUL WILSON: Hi, Paul from APNIC. I would like to follow up Miwa's mention of working with the NIRs and say thanks to JPNIC for the time that we spent together when I visited JPNIC in January and it was a very productive exchange and a bilateral two-way exchange that was really good to do, and it was high time we did that. That's just to reiterate what Miwa said about taking the opportunity to do that exchange more often. Certainly, when I can personally be there, I would make the effort to do that. And within any of the NIRs in particular, and if I can't, then other APNIC staff. Of course if they were on the ground, to be able to have that kind of exchange with you towards benefiting operations. Please don't always wait for APNIC to initiate such a thing. Please feel free to make some suggestions, invitations and also feel free to invite yourselves to visit APNIC as well, because we would always welcome the reciprocal visit as well.

That said, maybe there are other things that we can do together. We have at this meeting, this week, not only the traditional NIR SIG, but also what's become the traditional NIR technical meeting, and I wasn't able to attend the meeting this time, but if there is more of that that we can do, if there's something different or additional that we can do, then we should talk about that as well, because I can see the need as the challenges grow and as we all are dealing with new challenges in the technical area, and also in the political or the liaison communications area, that there may come a time when we need to have some sort of a NIR summit on a regular basis to really look at issues in more detail than we have a chance to do in the sessions that we have at the moment. So we could always move in that direction if that's regarded as a useful thing for us all to do together towards working better together in the future.

There was an interesting comment in a discussion on one of the ARIN lists lately which cast a bit of a cloud over the APNIC/NIR structure, and I was very concerted in writing into the ARIN list that the NIRs in the APNIC region are fully supported. That they have the full support of APNIC staff and that they work probably within the entire regional community policy process that NIRs contribute to and work within the policies that we have together. And that any issues to do with NIRs may be to do with the long history that we have together and the fact that through the policy process, we've made certain changes over the years to the NIR relationship that's been mutually agreed by the community and to the benefit of all. So I do want to say, particularly when we've got competing ideas, CIRs for instance, that the NIR model is something that's fully active and operational and supported in APNIC. Thank you.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Hi. In the collaborative group list you have mentioned, I couldn't see the members as a part of the collaborative group. Is it restorative, or the members can also be part of the collaborative group that you have created for that?

MIWA FUJII: You mean APNIC Members?

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Yeah, APNIC Members. And also the NIR members.

MIWA FUJII: So you're talking about...

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: No, you have two registrars and the other members of the collaborative groups are like ICANN at large, etc. So is it like having a policy, like the members can not be part of the collaborate?

MIWA FUJII: No, there is no policy or anything such at all. This is organically gluing the communication networks. I went to some conference and I met some people, and I asked them. We are doing the 10% message campaign, can you help us to disseminate the information? That person agreed. In that way, organically glued. So it is not like there are not any policies or criteria. If you're interested in being part of this effort to disseminate the information, please give me your business card.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Definitely. In this, I have a solution, there must be an initiative from APNIC to approach the Member organizations also to be a part of such groups, because I'm a Member of APNIC, and I didn't have this information at all from APNIC. So the propagation of what we're doing through the different mediums, it hasn't reached people like me who is a Member organization of APNIC. So I think that there should be more initiatives from APNIC which will make more and more Members get such information.

MIWA FUJII: OK, that's a very good point and thank you for pointing it out. In fact, APNIC have the APNIC-announce mailing list, and APNIC has MyAPNIC, and we disseminated the information, first to our Members and secondly to the newly created communication network. So I'm so sure that you received an email from APNIC. And if you're missing that, APNIC always opens up this information publicly through our website, so you should be able to access that information too. And we also disseminate the same information. Are you from India


MIWA FUJII: And ISPAI and NIXI, and one more?


MIWA FUJII No, particularly this NRO. SANOG, we did it through the SANOG mailing list too. So if you subscribe to those mailing lists, I'm sure you received it.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Maybe if you have any recommendation, OK, maybe you should communicate through this channel to reach you, maybe you can suggest it to Miwa later.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Yeah, I have one more question. Since cloud computing is becoming one of the hot topics and more and more hosts are expected to be part of the cloud, are we doing any specific activities towards targeting the cloud computing service providers and the data center operators who will be having more and more host? I'm not saying the content provider, but I'm saying with the data center operators, who are managing these contents. Do we have any initiatives there?

MIWA FUJII: Yes, thank you very much for asking that question. It's a very good question. In fact, as I pointed out in my slide set, we need to find out and identify systematic methods to reach out to the enterprises and content providers. As part of this effort, this time, I participated in the APTLD meeting. I never participated in that meeting before, but the domain name people may have some good databases for us to outreach and they actually mentioned data center and hosting program too. And we don't have direct access to those people's databases. If you know anyone who is good for us to contact, please let me know and I would like to exchange a business card with you after this meeting so that we can systematically approach the data center people and hosting providers. They are the people who we want to reach out to this year, definitely.


Thank you very much. And I would just like to add a little bit of comment on what Paul has commented on earlier about collaboration between APNIC and the NIRs. I think through the APNIC meetings, we were able to exchange information at the staff level. The general staff level, and exchange quite a lot of technical information. But I think when we were faced towards exhaustion, it's really important that we also exchange information at the board level, but most of all, like the NIR board members, they're not present, so it is really important, you know, it's really good that Paul has suggested that he's willing to come and exchange information with each individual NIRs. And another point that he mentioned was possibly maybe exchanging more technical information on the area that's a little bit different from the NIR technical workshop. So if you're interested in any of these things, feel free to comment on the NIR mailing list, or if you feel that it is not something that you want to comment publicly on, feel free to contact APNIC, or maybe if you send an email to the NIR SIG chair mailing list, we would be happy to consider on how to collaborate with the NIR and APNIC. So that's just a note to add. So thank you very much, Miwa, for the presentation.

MIWA FUJII: Thank you for your time.


IZUMI OKUTANI: So the next speaker will be Sheng Wei Kuo from TWNIC.

SHENG WEI KUO: Good morning, my name is Sheng Wei †Kuo from TWNIC. Today, I will introduce the TWNIC update. I will introduce the status of facing IPv4 address exhaustion in Taiwan. So I will introduce the two topics. One is Taiwan's ISP survey of facing to IPv4 address exhaustion. The other is the measure of the IPv6 readiness in Taiwan.

You know, Taiwan has an IPv6 program since 2002. In this one program, we focus on implementation such as infrastructure and the standard testing and application and promotion. In this program, look at the transition including policies. Transition technologies in the developments. Application and the service.

In transition phase, it is important to understand the status of Taiwan's ISPs versus IPv4 address exhaustion. So we made a survey of ISPs face to IPv4 address exhaustion on August 2009. And to start to do IPv6 readiness in 2009.

Now, I will introduce the first topic. The survey time is from 24 August to 24 September in 2009. And the survey target focused on TWNIC members. The total number of questionnaires is 59. In the response, we received 35 responses. The percentage of IPv4 addresses in ISPs who responded to the questionnaire and TWNIC IPv4 allocations is 95%.

The service using IPv4 address in 2009 into 2012. It is clear from this table that the service of FTTx and 3G and 4G, will need more IPv4 addresses in 2010.

And this statistic shows that FTTX, 3G and 4G and new services and growth rapidly. So ISPs will transit FTT †3G and 4G to IPv6 in high priority. IDC-lease Line services are easy to transit to IPv6, so these are the second priority. Cable and the ADSL are most subscribers, but most people, xDSL †CPE use L3 protocol and only support IPv4. For cost issue, ADSL and cable services are difficult to transit to IPv6.

The strategy of facing IPv4 address exhaustion. You can see the services transited to IPv6 and the to do more for IPv6 address management is a major strategy. This graph shows the ISP who had IPv6, 33%. This graph shows that which items have been implemented in IPv6 in Access Services. There are, including tunnel broker, Lease Line, and FFFx. And major item is the backbone.

This graph shows where the main issue is in deployment of IPv6. The cost is too high. No requirement from subscribers and no effect are major problems. It also responds that ISPs invest more money to implement IPv6, but they can't earn more money from IPv6 services.

Now, I will introduce the second topic, the measurement of the IPv6 readiness in Taiwan. In order to see the IPv6 in Taiwan, we define the IPv6 metrics set as the measure of the IPv6 readiness and to establish the method of analyzing data using continuous measurement. And to compile and publish the result of the measurement.

And there are the classifications. In the section of address allocation, we check IPv6 and IPv4 address advertisement in BGP routing table. In the DNS Query Analysis, one is comparisons for IPv6 transport and IPv6 transport. Another is the distribution of DNS query by resource record type. In the DNS deployment, we make sure that the deployment of DNS server on the base of the whole .tw domain name. The deployment rate of the mail server on the base of whole .tw domain name. And the deployment of the web server and the base of whole .tw domain name. With the web server access, we look at the total amount of IPv4/IPv6 traffic from/to web server. In the section of IPv6 traffic, we calculate the total amount of IPv6 traffic from/to the major ASIX and the total amount of IPv6 tunnel broker traffic. In the section of IPv6-ready products, we look at the number of products certified by IPv6 Ready Logo Program, phase 1 and phase 2.

This graph shows the measurement items of IPv6. It goes to the green column is users, the red column is vendors, and the blue column, it is the ISPs and ICP. Because ISPs and ICP and they're very important. So we divide it into two applications, access network and the core network.

The result of IPv6 readiness in Taiwan shows on this website where you can get more information. We also support IPv6. Thank you for listening to this. Any questions? Or suggestions?

IZUMI OKUTANI: I have a question. I notice that there's a little bit of higher awareness among access line providers, but what is the situation like for data center or content providers? I think, I assume from the survey result, the awareness is quite low. Do you have any, not solution, but measures that you have in mind to address those raising awareness in those areas? In TWNIC?

NEW SPEAKER: Maybe I can respond to the question, I'm from TWNIC. Looking at awareness for ISP for the portal website or the account application provider. And to prepare it and today make any awareness for IPv6.

IZUMI OKUTANI: And also, is TWNIC doing anything to raise awareness in those areas?

SHENG WEI KUO: We calculate the major ICP such as our main ISP.

IZUMI OKUTANI: So, is TWNIC approaching individual large content providers in about this issue? Or are you still working on approaching your ISPs?

NEW SPEAKER: Maybe I can explain more. We have to calculate the readiness from the applications in our domain DNS servers so we can see the DNS websites. So we also contact our ISPs to make more awareness for their customers. So we hope that they can send the awareness measures to our customer.

IZUMI OKUTANI: I see. So you're working through your ISPs. OK, thank you. Thank you very much. So the next speaker will be Sean.

SEAN SHEN:Hello, everyone. I'm Sean Shen from CNNIC. I'm very happy to get the chance to give a presentation here.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: We actually have a question from the web cast.

IZUMI OKUTANI:OK. Would you be able to share? It's regarding TWNIC's presentation?


IZUMI OKUTANI:Can you speak there. Sorry about this.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR:Hi, it's Sean from APNIC and I'm relaying a question from the web cast. I have Christian on the web cast who is asking - he's observed that many companies do not deploy IPv6 for many reasons, and he was wondering what is TWNIC's strategy to solve the problems that are given by your members?

SEAN SHEN: Is that a question for me?

IZUMI OKUTANI:No, sorry, if someone from TWNIC can answer that question. I don’t know if you have the answer?

NEW SPEAKER: That's a big question.

SHENG WEI KUO:Now, we are looking at the response of ISPs and understanding and some ISPs don't implement IPv6. And then we will manage the strategy. So we will manage the strategy in this year.

IZUMI OKUTANIOh, OK. So now you're at the stage of collecting what the issues are and based on that result, you will start considering what strategies TWNIC will take?


IZUMI OKUTANI: Ok, thank you.

NEW SPEAKER: Thank you.

SEAN SHEN: More questions?

IZUMI OKUTANI: Just on another note, there will be an update from JPNIC on this, and JPNIC will also be able to introduce how we try to address the issues that we come up with that was raised from our member, so a little bit different from our situation in TWNIC. But we should be able to share that at the last presentation.

SEAN SHEN: So, this presentation will focus on some goals we are trying to achieve and some research topics we are trying to work on. I will keep those. I think most of the audience know a lot about this. CNNIC's mission on address management. Some of our address allocation on IPv4 and IPv6. So we get some feed back from the ISPs and MIIT. MIIT is Ministry of Industry and Information Technology of China. For example, the lack of statistics information for governnance and also ISPs. Efficiency, because in most cases, people use manual configuration, and also the address block numbers are high and the BGP routing tables are large. And also, sometimes, a lot of addresses are not used at all. Also, the user identity management is bad. The address and also some other customization information is very old. And also, IPv6 address management. We can see that there are more organizations which are holding IPv6 addresses, so it makes it a bit more complicated. Also, IPv6 brings some new features which provide some solutions to some of the problems. And so, it's a good chance to be better in the IPv6 address management.

So the goals. First, we are looking for an automatic block allocation and end-point and address assignment. Also, the flexibility. So we need good algorithms which support the network topology and scale. So the information sharing, IP address information sharing mechanisms could be useful for the Internet governance. And also, used for ISPs themselves. For example, they could have good management or have good commercial benefits. And also, authentications. So addresses should be authorized and authenticated.

So our consideration - we considered different levels of the address management, for example from the RIR to the NIR and LIR. The NIR and LIRs get IP addresses from the RIRs. Also, the ISPs will get addresses from NIR and LIR and also a different level of ISPs. It's the second level. And also, on the third level, the access network, the terminals. They get IP addresses from upstream. So we consider, what do we need to do? What can we look for on those different levels? Well, the governance. It is preferred to have a unified allocation plan such that we have block allocations and a good block allocation and coordination system so that we can minimize the size of the routing table and meet the growth-based requirements. Some algorithms are topology independent, and some are not. So for example, for topology independent solutions, we had some research work on GAP, for example. That comes from the growth space address partitioning. And also, trying to work with CNNIC and Cisco. And there will be some detailed information on the back of this presentation, but I don't think that it is a good time to talk about it in too much detail. So you can find it. And also, topology dependent solutions may not be necessary for the governance, but it is important for ISPs. We don't have good ones available right now, and also, for the governance, it is necessary to have address block information acquisitions. For example, they need the statistics for the address usage. The information including the number of the address and blocks of the usage and the topology and the geology locations.

For ISPs, we talked to many ISPs. They are also interested in the automatic address block management. For example, at the initial allocation. And also configurations. So the IPv6 prefix delegation is good for the configurations. And also, we sometimes... there is the address is already allocated and if people want to change it, some renumbering mechanism will be necessary.

For Access Network, it is important to have the connection authenticated and they're trustworthy. So, for example, to authorize the address assignment and control is used to prevent fake IP addresses, for example, the SAVI group in IETF. And also, address information acquisition and validation. This is useful to eliminate the abuse of IP addresses and also some other functions like IP Whois. And also, there are challenges from the dynamic address management. In China, over 60% of IPv4 addresses are dynamic addresses. So it's not like a dynamic addressing is not good. As long as we have good storage and query systems which can be available in an automatic way, it should be OK. Also, privacy is also important for the access networks.

So, our conclusion and what are we looking for? A rational algorithm is important for initial allocation and renumbering. It could be topology independent or topology dependant. Both are important. And also the automatic address delegation solutions. For example using DHCP6. Also, the hierarchical IP address storage and query systems. This is what I just mentioned about the three level of the structures so that the information can be achieved in an automatic way. So, that's all for the presentation, and I would be happy to take questions or if anybody is interested in the research that we are doing. Actually, the picture is taken during the ceremony of the CNNIC and Cisco research lab. It was last October and we focused on the addressing technologies. For example, like the IP addresses petitioning and also the address security and all of the topics that are related to the IP addresses. Thank you very much. Any questions?

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Considering the availability of IPv6 in numerous numbers, is there any particular reason for selecting DHCP instead of static IP allocation?

SEAN SHEN: I'm sorry, I don't understand.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: IPv6, we have millions of IPv6. But the automatic address delegation solutions that you are providing for the terminal address assignment is DHCP. What is the reason for not selecting a static IP allocation?

SEAN SHEN: Not selecting what?


SEAN SHEN: Actually, the solutions we are looking for is not only for IPv6. We were looking for the solutions for both IPv4 and v6. So maybe the topic of the title is not proper. We are looking for a solution for other address management. Thank you.

IZUMI OKUTANI: My understanding is that you're not selecting a particular method of static or DHCP. Do you look at fixing a particular one?

SEAN SHEN: No, that's what we were thinking about during our research, but we haven't come to a final conclusion yet of what we must use.

IZUMI OKUTANI: So it's still under considerations. So the answer would be that they're still under consideration.


NEW SPEAKER: In the second slide, you showed that a large number of IP addresses are not allocated within the CNNIC. The second or third slide? If you go to the table which you showed? I represent NIXI from India. Just go to the next slide. Yes, that one.

The CNNIC is only contributing 33.6%. Whereas China Net and Unicom are there. Is the NIR not allocating IP addresses to these operators? China Unicom and China Net.

SEAN SHEN: My colleague might have a more accurate answer for that.

WENDY ZHAO: We can both answer the question. I might give you some background of the allocation in China. Actually, the China Telecom and Unicom are APNIC Members, and actually, they became APNIC Members before CNNIC so they get allocations directly from APNIC. And we've got operators who get IP addresses from CNNIC, but not China Telecom and Unicom.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: The second question is, how do you address the ssue of allocating IP addresses to a billion plus mobile phones?

SEAN SHEN: That will also be a problem for the ISPs like China Mobile. So we're trying to...

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Do you have any plan for it? Any strategy?

SEAN SHEN: No. No. That will need some research work, some serious research work. Any other questions?

IZUMI OKUTANI: OK, thank you very much Sean for the presentation.

And the last speaker will be Akinori Maemura from JPNIC. He will also give us an update of how JPNIC is tackling the issue of address exhaustion.

AKINORI MAEMURA: Good afternoon, everyone.

IZUMI OKUTANI: Sorry, can I interrupt a little bit. We are a little bit short of time and this session is supposed to be under 12:30. So you're free to leave before lunch. I don't mean to be rude to the speaker! I'm thinking of allowing Akinori to speak! And I think that his presentation will be very useful. Please go ahead.

AKINORI MAEMURA: By the way, I won't stop you!

OK, my name is Akinori Maemura, good afternoon, everyone. I would like to take this time because this time, originally, Izumi would make some update for the entire JPNIC activity. But I got the liberty to introduce the task force instead of the JPNIC update.

I am now in the very cool polo shirt of the task force. The task force on IPv4 address exhaustion in Japan and I would like to introduce some of the activities here.

OK, this is actually the last slide, but I think that I should explain about this slide first. What we are doing is to solve the situation and watching to see what the others will do in this situation. So that's the reason why the task force was established. So, to solve such a situation, what we need to do is mainly providing the information to the various stakeholders who are on the Internet or who are related to the Internet. Then the task force is already one and a half years old and exhaustive and substantial endeavours are already ongoing.

This slide illustrates our analysis. In the X axis, we just lined up all the stakeholders. We tried to line up the stakeholders and in the Y-axis, we tried to line up the status for the preparation for the IPv4 exhaustion for each stakeholder. And if this table is full, then we can say that the preparation for the IPv4 exhaustion is done. So that's our target. But I am not so sure if we can reach there based on that. Then,in this table, we can identify some specific programs like the lack ofsolutions or there is the lack of the information shares, etc. So just like I show you how we analyze this program.

The task force was formed in September 2008. And we have a lot ofmembers here. This is the first page for introducing the members. Thisslide shows the Internet associations. We have a lot of Internetassociations like ourselves, JPNIC, and IA Japan, Inter Association. AndJPCERT, JANOG, Network Operator's Group, and the Network SecurityAssociation, UNIX Users Society, and JPRS which is the .jp Registry. SoI think this is really almost exhaustive list of the Internet associations in Japan. And also, the Government, the Ministry of Internal Affair and Communications, which is the ministry in charge of the Internet policies. It's a member of the task force.

Second slide for the members, it is really interesting to see a lot of associations which are not necessarily related to the Internet as also involved in this task force. Telecom Services Association and Telecommunications Carriers Association. They are the associations for the carriers or telecom service providers. Japan Cable and Telecommunications Association is the cable TV association and the data communications association. Cable Lab and JATE, which is the approving and the local marking to the devices. And also, we have as a member, the Association for the Promotion of Public Local Information and Communication. Which is the reaching to the local governments or communities for the IT, in terms of the IT.

This is a working group. We have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 working groups. And I will introduce some activities with them.

OK, this is the page for how the PR group is working. So PR group established the website which is the kokatsu.jp. Kokatsu is the word for exhaustion, and maybe the Chinese and Korean people can easily imagine that. We set up the kokatsu.jp and you can find a lot of information there. And also, the kokatsu.jp consists of having a lot of material which the task force has already generated. And the main one is the action plan and the milestone, which I will explain later.

Now, this is the action plan milestone, and this slide is actually, I hope this is a famous one. Because a lot of people from the task force present about this. This action plan and milestone is considered and produced among the task force's activities to show the example milestone for the preparation in a lot of the stakeholders. And it is just an example of the milestones, but it is really easy for a lot of stakeholders to understand that they might be too late. So, of course, our purpose is for them not to be late. So this is already available on the kokatsu.jp website.

And as TWNIC had such efforts, as well as that, we are doing some questionnaire surveys almost annually to identify the To Whom, and What, and How, we can provide information to the stakeholders. I will not go into the details, but it is interesting to find what is the problem for deploying the countermeasure. It is a bit different from TWNIC's one. And the top reason for that is the cost. And we can find that with a lack of understanding of the management. That is an interesting answer, and we don't have any human resources or lack of solution and the technical knowledge. So this kind of questionnaire survey is really good for us for the task force to identify what is the focal area we need to work on. So if we can do a lot of things for the cost, then we can reduce the price of the cost. There is an effort by the vendors, but we can provide the technical information to increase their technical knowledge and we can provide a lot, some kind of information to increase understanding of the management. So this is a very good thing to help us find the focal point.

We have some other activities which are there, for example. To let them know that they need to prepare for it. That means that we are doing some conferences to present about exhaustion. What is exhaustion? What is a program for that? And something like that, to increase the awareness in the various stakeholders. And also, we set up the test bed to allow a lot of vendors or providers or operators to test their IPv6 service product on the IPv6 environment. It is already available in Tokyo and Osaka and there is an expert from the task force station there for any help for such testers. So I think this is a good initiative for the various stakeholders to test and get confidence for the services or their programs.

Also, we are doing something for the IPv6-enabled logo, which is the program by the global IPv6 forum. But the summary of the discussion for the enabled logo is launched within our task force. So it is an enabled logo. It is a logo which shows the website or the ISP service is already ready for the IPv6. Then, this is how the logo is shown. And in this logo, it shows that this is the IPv6-enabled website. And... and some statuses.

Our recent development, we started to provide an IPv6 services list. This is just a list of the IPv6 services that any ISPs or some content providers can put their service's name on the list. So it is just a request basis. So once we receive such a request, then the task force will add the service on the list. It's a very, very easy service. I think this has worked for the list, for the users to know what kind of IPv6 services are available right now.

Right, to summarize, I will show you the first slide, which is the last slide. Again, we are doing some kind of providing of information because we addressed the obvious need for the collective end to resolve, watching to see what the others will do. And actually, this situation is a lot... in a lot of languages we have such an expression. In Japanese, for example, we call that... (Speaks Japanese). That means just looking at each other. And I learned in the Korean language, it has such an expression. (Speaks Korean)

OK, is that correct?

NEW SPEAKER:Yes, that's perfect. That's correct.

AKINORI MAEMURA: Thank you very much. Maybe you can describe the expression to describe this situation?

SEAN SHEN: Actually, our situation is a little bit worse than that. But your pronunciation is great.

AKINORI MAEMURA: Thank you. So that means that this kind of situation is easy to happen. Easy to happen. And that's why to solve the kind of problem, again, that the information should be provided to know the situation or something like that. That is how the task force is working now. That is all of my presentation. Again, the kokatsu.jp for the Japanese version and it recently enhanced in the contents to provide the major contents for that is provided in English. So please consult kokatsu.jp.en for the English version. And also go to the info to contact us for any information or your opinion and your program for us and we may be able to provide you back with our information or answers. Thank you very much.


IZUMI OKUTANI: Thank you very much, Maemura-San. I think you managed with your presentation, to go for lunch for many people. And I think that we can take just one question. And if you have further questions, Maemura-San will be around at breaks, so you can catch him individually.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: I'm from NIXI, India. I think that it is very wonderful from your side and kokatsu. Who is funding this and who is coordinating all of the multiple bodies, which is a very difficult task?

AKINORI MAEMURA: Good question. This is just a grant. No fund is put on this. And these activities are just initiated by all individual participants in this task force.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: And self-funded? How does the funding come with the meeting expenditures?

AKINORI MAEMURA: OK, the member entities contribute the meeting room, for example. So JPNIC contributes the website and the human resources for the PR. So, in that manner.


IZUMI OKUTANI: And my understanding is that within each member organization, they have their own budget, because it is mostly a conglomerate of individual ISPs or like other entities so they try to contribute within their own budget for these activities.

AKINORI MAEMURA: Exactly right, thank you.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Can I see this as a result of raising awareness?

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: Maemura-San, you said that most companies are involved voluntarily within this activity. Can you see this as a result of JPNIC's efforts to raise awareness?

AKINORI MAEMURA: All right. Good point. Actually, we are doing the questionnaire survey which asked that, and this is the first one. And we've just done the second one. And we are now on the way to organize the result to make a report. And we see an obvious increase in awareness in this. This question is - do you know about exhaustion and have you studied the preparation or consideration for that? So, in this questionnaire, the second service is that we had a 10% increase in under consideration. The answer for under consideration. That means that awareness is actually obviously increased. So, I can show you the next time about that result and you can find some improvement in our case.


IZUMI OKUTANI: OK, one more. OK, one more.

AKINORI MAEMURA: And I think that would be the last question.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: My name is Suri from NIXI in India. I think it's a fantastic initiative and there's a lot for all of us to learn and take away from this. Thank you for that. The question that I have is of this nature. Of the awareness initiatives that you have put together under the task force, which one of that do you believe, or do you see as the one that is most active and most successful? And the other side to that is, the questions that come up from the potential users - what is the service that they're seeking most from the task force?

AKINORI MAEMURA: Come again, please. I don't really understand.

SPEAKER FROM THE FLOOR: OK, let me put it another way. Of the awareness initiatives being taken up by the task force, of that, which one do you find is the most effective in getting the most responses?


IZUMI OKUTANI: So of the projects under the task force, which one do you feel that the members or the community feels is useful?


IZUMI OKUTANI: Like education, or testbed?

AKINORI MAEMURA: Right now, right now, OK, we are now doing... OK. We are doing... no, holding some hands-on training and it is very small training gathering 10-20 participants but it is hands-on. And it is very shaped to take the course. It is very popular. And once we called for the participants, then maybe fill the seats up in maybe half an hour or something! That's really where we have the very good feedback from that. So from that kind of situation, we definitely feel that there is a big need for the technical training in terms of the preparation of the other stuff, the human resources in the provider.



IZUMI OKUTANI: So thank you very much, Maemura-San. And also to all the speakers and the people who spoke up on the microphone as well. It was a little bit extended, but I thought we had very good discussions, so thank you very much everyone.

AKINORI MAEMURA: Ok, time for lunch!


(End of session)